Ken
I have a 1798 Large Cent that has me a little suspicious. It's about a gram off in weight. It's worn but all the features are distinct.
It certainly looks real. Photo comparisions don't differ. Have you come across a coin that's a little light in weight and it be from wear?
I had a bad experience with a counterfiet Dollar and have been leary ever since. However I obtained this Large Cent before I became "educated".
Do you know of any particular "types" that were conterfieted more than others? I have searched the web and found some good articles but short
of sending it off to be slabbed, I don't know of anything out there that could help me verify it. Thanks. Steve
Steve,
If you can, post a digital photo and here is how to do it:
1. At the bottom of this page you will see a "files" tab, click on it.
2. You will then see a tab labeled "upload new file" at the bottom of the page, click on it and follow the directions.
3. After you have uploaded the file you will see the filename appear on the page, next you click on the "info" tab and copy the full file URL.
4. On the menu bar above you will see a button labeled "insert image wizard" (it looks like a picture with a star on it) click it.
5. A new screen will appear make sure the source type is set to external URL image
6. In the "Provide URL" box paste your URL that you copied earlier and then click "insert code"
7. Your all done!
In regards to weight I have to ask the obvious first, is your scale calibrated? Hate to see you go through a ton of trouble for a simple accident. If it is calibrated can you post the grams weighed?
As far as types counterfeited more than others well thats a tall order. The most popular are silver dollars (Bust, Seated, Trade, & Morgan) but that does not mean there are not other popular counterfeits for many key date coins. For example a popular trick is to take a 1944D Lincoln cent and shave off a portion of the first 4 to make it a 1914D cent and then sell them for hundreds of dollars.
Personally, I've never heard of any counterfeit or modified 1798 large cent but anything is possible yet it seems unlikely (depending on condition) as the 1798 large cent is the most affordable of all 19th century large cent coins.
Until we get a photo theres little we can do from here
Ken
Thanks for the feedback. I'll take some detailed photos and upload them soon. As far as the weight scale, I just got a My Weigh MX -300 with a 100 gram calibration weight which after calibration, weighs 100 grams exactly. I then weighed the coins, one being the subject here and the other a 1794 Large Cent. There was approximately 1 gram difference. The 1794 weighed about 10.7 grams. I'll give the exact numbers when I upload the pictures. Until then. Thanks again. Steve
You should be all set now. If it fails again just e-mail me. In a weird sort of way it was good you found this out as for some reason this upload feature was disabled for all members except myself.
Thanks for the help
Steve,
While we are on the topic, here are some info to chew on. Assuming we are not talking about an altered coin then Counterfeit methods come in the two basic forms of casting or die struck.
Casting - Basically this is a copy of a copy. They use an existing coin to create a mold in order to cast the coin. These are actually a little easier to detect as it lacks the detail of the original coin so the design may appear mushy, grainy, or just not sharp. Another giveaway is to look at small round letters or number like an "O", if the original coin had a weakly struck or worn "O" the it tends look like a really deformed "O" or sometimes it is even solid like a dot. Also look at all small lettering as small lettering tends to be both grainy and rounded instead of the sharp letters usually seen on a coin. Another giveaway is to look for a seam along the edge of a coin, though this can be hidden if they reeded the edge. The final detection method available is sound, believe it or not if you drop a real coin it will make a particular ring but if you drop a cast coin the ring sound is entirely different.
Die Struck - This one is tough as a counterfeit coin is struck from two coin dies just like a real coin. This technique has fooled many including grading houses and dealers. One method is to have at your disposal a supply of coin photo's (and all their varieties) so that you can compare minute details. For this you will need a decent loupe with magnificaton between 10x to 16x and a good memory for certain coin details as you probably won't be carrying around a stack of photos everytime you want to buy a coin. Another technique that may help is weight. A counterfeiter may use too little or the wrong metal composition and can be detected by simply weighing a coin. So if you have two coins each in an AU grade where one weighs 25 grams and the other 20 grams then you know something suspicious is going on.
Though the internet is a great resource it may not always be the best research for this topic. I highly recommend visiting your local library or picking up a book on the subject of counterfeiting. You can pick up a used copy of PCGS's Coin grading and Counterfeit detection for about $8 at Amazon.com.
Ken
Thanks again for all your information. I have uploaded the images and quite frankly after all the thorough handling and examination I'm convinced that it is real. However it is light by almost a gram at 9.8 grams compared to the others at 10.7 grams and of course the 1794 is a couple of grams heavier. I believe my scale is off by .2 grams. It consistanly weighs all the other Large cents at 10.6 to 10.7 grams and they should weigh 10.89 grams. Still I'm curious as to what you think. Thanks. Steve
Definitely looks real. And its definitely not a casting counterfeit.
As far as weight, George Washington authorized a weight change in in 1795 so that explains the difference but you probably already knew this.
I'm not shocked with weight variation in coins from this time period by as much as 10% which is what your coins seem to be falling into (Spain actually was one of the best countries at producing coins with a consistent composition and weight during this period). The coin is actually in very good shape so little weight loss has occurred from wear and I'm guessing it fell into the 10% variance. I'm not quite convinced your scale is off and believe your coins fall into the "acceptable" variance of the time period. To double check weigh something you know like a modern coin and see if your hunch is correct.
Later in the 19th century as technology improved planchets were much better but even here manufacturers were allowed a +/- tolerance in weight (which I've only seen under and never over). I know nickel 5 cent pieces were around +/- 5% but I do not know what the U.S. Mint set for acceptable tolerances for other coins/compositions. Interestingly, this lower weight caused for many a weak strike or minor machine doubling often referred to as "chatter".
By the way, very nice coin! Very nice obverse, I hope I'm that lucky when looking for a specimen.